Drew Gerber Speaks on PR and your Brand

As part of my interview series with “Thought Leaders,” PR guru and author, Drew Gerber from “Pitchrate.com” shares his wisdom with us. I’ve been following Drew online for some time, so I was pleased as punch that he agreed to this important interview.

Ed Roach
: How much does personal branding matter in Public Relations?

Drew Gerber: Personal branding is as important in the world of business survival as food, shelter, and water are to personal survival. If you want to set yourself apart from the competition you have to make a name for your products and services. Chances are someone else is doing the same thing you are, so you really have to find what’s unique about you. The goal of branding is to make it so your target market remembers you. When you’re giving an interview you have to make sure you deliver your message in way that forces people to take notice of your brand. You have to make it like a song they can’t get out of their heads.

Ed Roach: Whenever I speak of corporate branding, I believe a company is smarter to lead than follow. Taking their PR efforts into consideration, how important is “being the leader”?

Drew Gerber: Being a leader is definitely important, but you also have to know what others are doing. I would never advocate following or “riding the coat tails”, but with the Internet and social networking, ideas and thoughts are being exchanged at a very rapid pace. It really comes down to progression these days. How far you can take an idea and how you can leverage it to really make a difference in you company.

Ed Roach: Drew, I’ve heard you say, “When it comes to small businesses, PR is in everything you do.” Since your PR is a part of your brand would you agree that the tone of your brand should be reflected in your PR initiatives?

Drew Gerber: Definitely! The tone of your brand should be reflected in all your PR initiatives. Your brand is who you are. It’s counterproductive to deliver a message in an interview that doesn’t align with your branding. You have to be memorable, not confusing.

Ed Roach: Let’s say a company is in crisis, how can PR play a role in re-establishing brand reputation?

Drew Gerber: PR can be a company’s most effective tool– as long as they are willing to take responsibility and be vulnerable. Crying on camera seldom hurts either. We all watched as Toyota launched a huge PR campaign after all the recalls. They had to reestablish trust with its current and potential customers. They went hard after their long history and track record, and even brought emotion into the campaign, which we don’t see too often from large corporations. When a company’s relationship with the public is tarnished for whatever reason, PR is the most effective way to get the shine back on.

Ed Roach: As a Public Relations expert, how do you believe the Drew Gerber brand is perceived?

Drew Gerber: Well, I always think it’s hard to be objective about yourself, even if you a branding expert. Ever try cutting your own hair? I hope I’m perceived as approachable, passionate, and, above all else, committed to making a difference.

L. Drew Gerber is CEO of Wasabi Publicity, Inc. (www.PublicityResults.com) and creator of www.PitchRate.com, a free media tool that connects journalists, publicists, and experts. Gerber’s business practices and staffing innovations have been revered by PR Week, Good Morning America and the Christian Science Monitor. His companies handle international PR campaigns and his staff develops online press kits for authors, speakers and companies with Online PressKit 24/7, a technology he developed (www.PressKit247.com). Contact L. Drew Gerber at: [email protected] or call him at 828-749-3548.

How To Discover The Social Media Fit!

Every week it seems there is another channel we can use to market our companies. Social Media for one appears to be leaping on to the stage at every opportunity. My inbox is constantly pushing out new sites to sign up to in the promise of delivering to us a new and exciting piece of business. I’m sure, like me, you wonder is it worth all the hype and will they get me any more notice than what I am experiencing with my current nest of sites.

All I can advise is that it is extremely important that you do your research and see what “appears” to be a good fit for you. By that I mean, how much effort you have to put forth to get the results you hope to achieve. You can’t do them all and be effective. As long as you realize that social media marketing is unlike any other traditional channel, you will appreciate what it takes to build audience. That difference of course is that social marketing is not about selling but is about the conversation. Branding loves social marketing because that conversation leads to relationships.

Social media also can be powerful in the right hands. Would you enjoy knowing when a key person in a business you have been aching to do business with leaves, opening the door for a new relationship, quite possibly with you? Trolling social sites can harvest this type of information. Developing a social media guide for your employees, can establish points of reference and alert them as to how the company wants them to identify themselves when ever they comment on the company online.

How ever you use the medium, finding that great fit, reduces unrealistic expectations and allows you to connect with your audience in more meaningful ways.

Try This Team Building Outline!

Opportunities come to you in a variety of ways:

Referrals. These are by far the most desirable. These come from people who generally have a great deal of respect for you, and they feel that they can trust you with their contacts.

Advocates. Advocates are people who follow you. Once you discover who they are, it is amazing what the cross-section of talent is.

Colleagues. I consider this group part of my peer group. They are in many ways my competition, but they bring certain specialties to the table that I can draw from. You could call them “strategic competition.”

Friends. We associate generally with people who share our values and interests.

Live Networking

Getting out into your community and meeting people allows you the luxury of sizing up people by how they handle themselves. You’d be surprised at the amount of talent that exists with an hours drive of you. When you’re networking, don’t just mine this resource for new business, BUT talent as well. You know the market you operate in, look for people who could make your services more compelling.

Online Networking

Sites like Linkedin are terrific networks to find talent with which to expand your service network. As you start to see individuals with talents that appeal to you, start the conversation. Look for ways that you can reach out to them. Give first. This is true for any situation, online or off. Showing your willingness to help them, makes you a trusted contact to them.

Blogging

Whether it is my blog and several other blogs that I frequent, you would be surprised at the number of followers you eventually become acquainted to. Over the years respect for one another grows and because you are all essentially in the same community, certain expertise is realized and the opportunity to share in it rises. In several cases I have built a pitch for new business, from the unique expertise that I have acquired from blogging associates. They in return have brought opportunities my way.

I am always on the look out for opportunities that will help grow my circle of influence. So if networking for new business doesn’t appeal to you, then maybe the fit is discovering new resources that you can add to you roster that will enable you to go after business, previously out of reach.

SBB Small Spark Contest 2010: Choose ONE Affiliate Program to Promote

Do You Have Just ONE Small Spark?

I’m inspired! Are you? Getting the word out about your business doesn’t have to be a big huge task… all you need is ONE spark to get it going and before you know it, it’s grown into something massive. This month we’re focusing on Affiliate Marketing.

April 2010

This month’s challenge is to pick ONE affiliate program to promote. I purposely only promote a small handful of affiliate programs because I’ll only review and promote those programs that I have used myself or highly recommend.

Plus, there’s something to be said about consistency. With anything in life, if you’re consistent with what you’re doing then the more you accomplish.

Also for me, I’m not entirely fond of affiliate marketing but it’s definitely growing on me. 🙂 The one thing I want to do for each program I promote is offer a bonus for those who purchase through my affiliate link. So far I’ve created a checklist for the Problogger Workbook and for the Blog Mastermind program.

For each of these programs the checklist provides a way for me to not only give people something when they purchase from me but it shows the owner of the program that the sale was from Vera Raposo since it’s unique to me. So.. if YOU purchase either of those programs through my affiliate link then please email me at veraATsmallbusinessbranding.com. I’ll send the checklist over to you right away.

The best part about these two programs that I’m promoting is the more I do, the more income I’ll make from it.  I’ll break down for you for each program what I’ve done and the income produced from it.

Blog Mastermind Affiliate Program

This was the first program I decided to promote when I decided on the ONE program method for myself. While I do promote other programs besides these two, this is the first one I promoted with intention of just promoting that one.

After taking the Blog Mastermind program I went through and created the checklist for myself, then I thought I’d give it as a bonus and I also contacted Yaro Starak and let him know that I created the checklist.  I also gave  him a copy for his members to follow because I figured if it helped me then it would help anyone else also.

I created a couple blog posts detailing the program along with a success blog post to show my readers that others were also having success with it as well.

Yaro’s program in particular only opens at certain times each year then he shuts the door.  It’s really great for promotions but for me as an affiliate it’s hard to focus on when the promotions take place because I’m usually pretty busy with other things.

I do prefer programs that stay open all year long but I also recognize that this idea of shutting the doors so he can handle a group not only makes sense for giving people the sense of urgency but I can also see that it’s easier on Yaro to focus just on ONE group at a time.

I think for programs like Yaro’s and the future ones I promote that follow this model it’s best that I create a promotions calendar and plunk it on when I get Yaro’s emails otherwise I usually just read his email to me and then forget about it.

Ok to recap, here’s what I did for the Blog Mastermind Program

1) About 4 blog posts

2) Emailed my subscribers once

3) Created a checklist

Total time invested: Approximately 3 Hours
Total commission earned: Just under $1000

Not a bad income for just a few hours of work. 🙂 What job can you do that makes that kind of money that’s over $300/hour!

The screen shot here shows only around $700 so I’m not sure where the other emails are, plus Yaro changed the way he runs his affiliate program over to Clickbank so I may have changed the email or something. Anyhow, each of the emails below (Vera you’ve just referred a sale!)  is worth $248.50 in commission.

Here’s one of the emails opened up

As you can tell I haven’t been promoting it all that well since so I’d like to focus on doing a better job there.

Problogger Affiliate Program

I love the Problogger Workbook and I really love Darren’s affiliate program, it’s easy to navigate as he has a simple page that shows everything I need for his program. I started promoting it in the fall of 2009 and while the income stats aren’t as impressive you’ll see it’s been more consistent than Yaro’s program.  Right now it’s mostly fun to see the emails that I’ve referred a sale because I literally do nothing for it but slapped up a banner on the site.

I know I could do SO much better with this program and plan to in the future. People are more likely to purchase if I create my own story behind success with this program.

Here’s what I’ve done for this program:

1) Created a checklist for people who purchase through my link

2) Put a banner or two up on the site

3) Add my affiliate link inside my broadcasts out to my mailing list

Total time invested: not even an hour
Total commission earned: Just under $191.52

Again, this isn’t crazy money or anything but it’s not bad for not even an hours worth of work.  Imagine how much I can increase it by just doing some more honest promotions.

Here’s a screen shot for you to view, like I said, not crazy or anything but at least it’s more consistent.

There’s certainly a ton more I could be doing to help increase the income so that’s the challenge for me as well as you for this month.

So let’s look into WHAT affiliate marketing is:

————

Definition Of An Affiliate: When you become an affiliate with a specific company, or affiliate program, you are awarded for every visitor, subscriber and/or customer that you provide to the company.

Affiliate marketing is one of the most popular forms of business on the web, and an effective way to promote businesses and products.

The basic set up, from the affiliate’s side, goes as follows:

You (the Affiliate) find a company or product that you would like to promote. You join the “affiliate program” of the company and receive the tools by which you can send customers to the company’s website. This most often includes a special URL link, which will let the company know that the customer has come from you. You will get credit when people visit the companies website.

Details can vary, but in most cases you receive a percentage of the revenue from sales that customers make from following your link.

———–

Here are a few tips for designing your website to make sales:

1.  Try to use a white background and black font.  Excessive use of fonts or colors will give your website an unprofessional look.  Keep the design clean and easy to read.

2.  Make the navigation friendly. Have a navigation menu with your main categories then underneath each of those categories you can have links to sub categories or articles.  Have an updated site map so that visitors can easily find what their looking for and make sure you give them a link back to the home page.

3.  Avoid flashing imagines and flash introductions.  These all take away from the purpose of your site and also affect your search engine rankings.  Keep it simple and avoid any flashing graphics, music or flash images in your design.

4.  Keep offer to a minimum. It’s tempting to sign up for a lot of different affiliate programs at once, but this could lead to over promoting of too many different things.  If you give your customers too many choices, they many get too confused and not buy anything at all.  Depending on the size of your website, keep your promotions to a few quality programs and always weave affiliate links into the content of your site.

5.  Warm up your customers. Don’t give visitors a sales pitch as soon as they land on your website.  Instead pre-sell them by offering information, advice and substance they can actually use, then and only then should you make an offer.

6.  Avoid overusing exclamation marks!
Or hypey language, this can be a turn off to a lot of people and may look unprofessional and like you’re just out to make a sale.  Again, think information first.

7.  Keep in touch. Don’t let visitors just leave your site.  Make sure you get their email address so that you have a way to follow-up with them later on.  Don’t abuse their information and send them product offer after product offer because they may just unsubscribe from your list.  Instead, send them useful information and content and then make subtle product recommendations that will help fill their needs.

8.  Provide your contact information.
People are weary of a lot of websites.  Clearly list your contact information on your website.  Of course, you may not want to give out your home address but a P.O. Box, email address and general information about you and your business helps build trust and credibility.

9.  Ask for feedback.
Place a poll or form on your website where visitors can send you feedback.  This is a great way to do market research and learn what your visitors would like to see or how you can improve your website.

Here is how to make your promotions successful:

1. Relevant – Make the affiliate programs that you select really relevant to your niche subject to keep the credibility of your site and entice your members into purchasing the products they need.  It goes without saying, but if you have a site about babies and parenting babies, it’s not a good idea to promote pet related products as these aren’t relevant to your target market.

2. Write honest product reviews. Write informative and honest product reviews.  This is a great way to give your unbiased opinion on a product and to build trust with your subscribers.  And if a product is faulty in some way you can add that as a note, your subscribers will trust you more if they know your recommendations are honest and sincere.

3. Find the correct placement for affiliate links. As mentioned above, affiliate banners and graphics don’t usually work as well as providing informative content and weaving affiliate links where appropriate throughout that content.  For example, you can write a quality article about helping your baby recover from colic and in that article you can link out to resources which will help the parents remedy this problem.

4. Set up your own domain or blog. You can’t do this for every affiliate program, but if you find a product which has really helped you and offers a generous commission, you can set up a blog and speak about your experience using this product.  Make regular posts and comments about how the product is helping you and your experiences with it and link to the product throughout your blog.  You can also set up your own domain name to promote a product.  This looks much more professional than an affiliate link and will be easier to remember too.  It’s great for using when writing articles and content as well.

5. Try to find affiliate programs that offer ‘lifetime cookies’. This means that when you send a member to the affiliate site your affiliate link is tracked in their system and even if the member doesn’t purchase the product right away, you’ll still get paid if the person returns and buys from that affiliate program at a later date.

6. Redirect your affiliate links.
There are many benefits to redirecting your affiliate links.  It’s easier to track and remember your links when you need them.  If a program changes their links it’s easy to go back and change your links.  You’ll also present a more professional image; many affiliate links are long and look like garbly goop; your visitors may be suspicious of these links.  Redirecting your affiliate links solves all these problems.

Here’s how to Redirect your affiliate links:

STEP 1: Create Redirect for Normal Text Link

* Open a blank page in an HTML editor

* Copy the following link and paste it in the blank page:

<html>

<head>

<meta http-equiv=”refresh” content=”0;url=AFFILIATELINKGOESHERE”>

</head>

<body>

</body>


STEP 2:
Add the Affiliate Link Where the Yellow Highlighted Text is

STEP 3: Save File Using a Descriptive Name

* For example, if the affiliate link is for Usborne books, then you could name the file ‘usborne.html’

* The resulting affiliate redirect link would be: http://www.domain.com/usborne.html

That’s it!  It’s pretty easy to do and you’ll get many benefits from doing this.

Here’s The Small Spark Challenge for April 2010

1) Pick ONE program you want to promote

2) Post a comment at the bottom of this post to let us know you’re in the contest for this month.

3) Ask ANY questions here so I can help you.

4) At the end of the month state what you did and how it helped your business.

I’ll pick a winner and post it here inside the comments — if you win you need to send me an email to veraATsmallbusinessbranding.com to claim your prize within 3 business days.

The Monthly Winner Will Receive:

  • Report & Checklist – You will get a free copy of the report & checklist so you have your plan in place
  • Articles – 2 Custom Written Articles for your website or blog from All Custom Content
  • Virtual Assistance – 30 Minutes Virtual Assistance – to get your articles listed in some directories and added to your site with Christina Lemmey from MultiMediaVA.com
  • Branding Session30 Minutes Branding Strategy for your Business with Ed Roach from The Branding Experts
  • A Monthly Product from Melissa Ingold
  • Graphics Professional Button for your site from Nola Cooper Classic Creations Design
  • PLRPrivate Label Rights Pack from Alice Seba & Mila Sidman All Private Label Content
  • Free Access to Membership Site Intensive by Kelly McCausey & Lynette Chandler
  • Bonus: Vera will donate $50 To The Monthly Charity
  • Bonus: 1 Month Direct Email Coaching from Vera

Good luck to you!

PS. Would you like to promote our Contest? Just grab these buttons and banners, link them to

http://www.smallbusinessbranding.com/spark & place them on your website.  🙂

smallspark_125x125 smallspark_125x125_challenger

smallspark_468x60

PPS. Would  you like to donate a prize? Just email veraATsmallbusinessbranding.com.

Jaimy Weiler Speaks From The Heart On Her Brand.

As part of my interview series with “Thought Leaders,” consultant , speaker and author, Jaimy Weiler from “One Heart Waking – Business and Executive Consulting” shares her wisdom with us. Jaimy and her company “One Heart Waking” are truly unique in their delivery of effect and balanced work environments.

Ed Roach: Considering the fact that a brand is essentially your reputation and adherence to brand values is critical in maintaining a brand that resonates with customers, what have you found in your consultation with businesses are the biggest barriers to living up to these established brand values?

Jaimy Weiler: Because new business comes to me predominantly through referral, I do strive to keep my brand values consistent as I deliver my services by focusing on “bringing simplicity, integrity and clarity of purpose to business, finance and life”. This is the tag line of One Heart Waking, and living to these values is the very essence of what I deliver.

Ed Roach: I have always believed that a very positive attitude coupled with a desire to lead instead of following is a strategy that will lead to realizing your goals. How much of a role does “attitude” play in reaching goals?

Jaimy Weiler: I believe that attitude is both fundamental and essential. It is the foundation from which our actions spring. My experience, with both myself and my clients, shows me that results follow attitude and action. A positive attitude creates more positive action, which then leads to more positive results. By the same mechanism, negative attitudes most often result in negative results, or, results that come with un-desired side-effects!

Ed Roach: You have a very unique approach in guiding businesses. What would you say is the one thing that makes your clients love you?

Jaimy Weiler: I would say that my clients sense at a deep level that I am truly ‘for’ them and the highest vision of themselves and their business. And, my confidence in what I do engenders mutual trust and respect In coming to me for traditional business consulting, which they receive, we also find the underlying and often hidden issues which may have for so long held them and/or the business back from its fullest success.

Ed Roach: When you evaluate a prospective client, what things do you watch for that would point to a good fit with your company – “One Heart Waking?”

Jaimy Weiler: The predominant characteristic that I watch for in determining whether I am a good fit for a prospective client, is their sincere and authentic desire for change. Along with this desire must be the openness and energy to implement changes which may go against the grain of past habits.

Ed Roach: What’s the nicest thing a client has ever said about you?

Jaimy Weiler: The nicest thing that a client ever said to me was that I helped them to clear away the obstacles and structural problems that had kept their highest business vision in a dream state in the future. And in experiencing the newness of their increased success, were inspired to take themselves and their business colleagues to an even more fulfilling level of service and achievement.

Ed Roach: Finally Jaimy, how would you define success? (For you personally)

Jaimy Weiler: I define success as bringing the best of me forward into my life, more and more every day. Success to me is showing up, present and ready to go, adjusting and growing as life unfolds before me.

Thank you Jaimy.

For more information on Jaimy Weiler visit her website OneHeartWaking.com, and pick up her book, “Light Through The Heart.” or email her at [email protected]

10 Things I Hate About Branding

ONE:
Frankly it takes a lot of work to stay on top of my brand. If only I could just push a button like the Staples “Easy Button” ( which I have on my desk). I hate that I can’t!

TWO:
I hate having to remind businesses that their brand is more than their logo. I have every design shop and ad specialty shop to blame for the mis-information I guess. (I could be painting with big a brush too)

THREE:
I hate companies who don’t realize that branding is a top down initiative. Without the captain on board, who’s piloting the brand?

FOUR:
Just too many great books to read. I’m stuck on historical fiction right now and so slipping in books on branding is a tight fit – I hate that.

FIVE:
I hate those who confuse their brand message with their slogan. There is a difference. I guess since they are both important, I should be happy that they have anything.

SIX:
I hate followers. Why do some businesses still feel they must follow the leader in their category? A commenter to one of my articles recently lamented their displeasure at businesses who copy the leader’s image almost to the letter. Sheesh!

SEVEN:
I also hate people online who make the simple complicated in an attempt to screw a few dollars out of your pocket, only to reveal the obvious. If you see something online you want to get into, email the author – I’m sure they’ll help you.

EIGHT:
I love it when someone says, “Hey, you’re the branding guy!” I hate that it took so long.

NINE:
Sometimes I hate that consistency is worth so much to your brand. I get the itch like many of us to change things up a bit. BUT, my better judgement knows that that would diminish what I have achieved so far.

TEN:
Sometimes I hate focus groups when judging brand image. By their nature they look to criticize regardless if it is even necessary. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. Was your brand built on consensus or instinct?

Thanks for letting me vent a small bit, I hate keeping it bottled up inside.

How To Start Your Business With A Great Brand

The world is mired in a recession, but opportunity is everywhere. All around me, I’m meeting people who are starting a business.

They refuse to let the economy deter them – as a matter of fact, frequently it is the result of the poor economy that has presented opportunity to them. Where doom and gloomers see defeat, entrepreneurs rise to the challenge.

It is these very bold attitudes that are the basis for powerful brand values. It is these values that will be the foundation of your new brand and upon them; a new successful business will flourish.

Basing everything on these values, an entrepreneur must dream up a great name for their new venture. The name should inspire your intended audience. It should be memorable. Your name is important as it identifies the brand.

Having decided on a catchy name, next comes the logo. Since the logo is the visual component of your brand name, it must accurately reflect the brand name. It too, must inspire. If you use an icon in your logo (ie: Apple’s apple and the Nike swoosh) try to keep it simple. In deciding a palette it is best to keep the image to two or three colors. This makes it easier on the eye. A full range of color, just over complicates. The logo should work as effectively in black and white and gray tones. It must be legible at any size. Color is a very powerful icon that can also represent a brand (ie: UPS’s brown). Color should convey the personality of the brand.

Once the logo is complete, how it looks and feels sets the tone for everything else you do. From your website to your marketing materials, everything follows the corporate color pallette. Consistency is paramount here. Deterring from your palette dilutes your brand and confuses your intended audience. Imagery used is determined from the brand personality. Even the way you tell your story should be consistent with your brand efforts to date. If you have a very traditional, old world image, how you speak in your marketing should reflect this attitude. The tone is as important as the intent. At this stage of your brand development, you are the absolute master of your destiny. Be sure that it jives with your brand values. To do otherwise wouldn’t make sense in the marketplace.

To get the message out, the modern entrepreneur must embrace on and off-line strategies to develop their personal and professional brands. Off-line they must develop personal, and business networks to extend their reach. Joining professional organizations will go a long way in establishing that all important local presence you will need. Give back to your community through actively participating in influential not-for-profits. Many of these organizations have people of influence on their boards. If your audience is predominantly female, then you would want to market to professional women’s groups, and the places they congregate. If you are a woman yourself, membership is key.

Don’t forget print marketing, speaking engagements, radio, television shows and special events are also effective ways to market your brand.

Online is a fantastic place to grow your personal brand by feeding your expert profile. There is no better way than blogging. Also, social media such as Twitter and Facebook gives an entrepreneur a perfect platform to display their expertise. Your website MUST be more than a brochure site. It should provide your audience with tools that help them grow. It has to prove that your brand is more than the competing brand. Show your expertise. A blog allows you that platform to put your opinion out there. Writing white papers and ebooks is another great tool in drawing in an audience. What is exciting is most of your competition do NOT have these tools on their radar. Google them and see that many websites are simply brochure sites.

Using ebooks, white papers, audio and video as lures for email harvesters, you can build your own niche audience of targeted individuals and companies. The opt-in email list is dynamite because it is exactly whom you want to talk to. Breaking your list down even further only makes your marketing efforts more powerful. Email marketing should definitely be one of your premium avenues for promoting your brand. Affiliate sales, on-line networking (ie: Linkedin.com) are incredible ways to get your brand known around the world.

Actively pursue alliances to jointly promote events to an online audience doubles your effectiveness. Personally I have several partnering efforts in motion with companies in different parts of the world. Our efforts not only increase our potential markets to earn new business, but it also expands our range of influence.

For more information on Branding Yourself Online, I have a free 33 minute video on this very topic, over at my website. It gives you to the point how to’s in developing your online brand. Some of which we touched on here. Your brand is a terrible thing to waste. Be sure that everything is consistent including your tone and message. This will make it cheaper and more powerful to promote. Look for assistance online for every aspect of your business plan. The resources at your fingertips are reasonable in cost and immensely beneficial. If you are looking to build a team for your new business, look not further than an associate of mine, who just launched her new blog: mybreakthroughbusiness.com Providing this link to a friend’s blog, is another form of cross-promotion. EVERY effort has long term benefit.

I hope that you enjoy your business as much as I. Building your brand properly can be very rewarding.

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